Comments on: Thoughts on Immigration, Vegetarianism, and James Cone http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/ Current Blog Project: Six Months With a Quaker Preacher Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:08:14 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Pied Beauty » Immigration http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-835 Pied Beauty » Immigration Thu, 25 May 2006 06:35:20 +0000 http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/#comment-835 [...] As some of you may know, there was a variety of protests led by Cardinal Mahoney through out the country last monday in response to a new immigration bill, which would control immigration by raising illegal immigration to a felony. Here is an L.A. Times article on a recent protest. Ever since, the issue of immigration has been recurrent and I don’t exactly know how to respond. My friend, Wess Daniels, has a great dialogue going on the issue. There are several difficult issues. First, I approach the issue from the standpoint of a liberation theologian,which reminds us of the message of the prophets and the example of God’s action on behalf of the oppressed people of Israel in Egypt. God is on the side of the socially marginalized. Note the example of Jesus, who counted tax collectors, prostitutes and drunkards as among his friends and disciples not the wealthy and politically powerful. In our society immigrants are undoubtedly among this population. Second, I would like to note the positive presence that Latino immigrants have in the US. The Evloution of the Mexican-born Workforce in the U.S., written by two Harvard economists, is an informative and provocative look at actual role immigrants play in our economy. Our economy is dependent on their cheap labor, which is unacceptable in my opinion. Third, one of the biggest issues seems to be enforcement. Whatever policy we choose, it must be implemented with justice and efficiency. Even if we had the perfect response, if it is not enforced (without violence or militarization, of course) we will still have the same problem. Finally, we need to look at the broader issue. What is bringing immigrants to America? The jobs and lack of sustainable jobs in their country. Our country so often becomes the focus of immigration that we forget that Mexico is part of the problem. Holly has written a post on the need for just trade between the US and Mexico. That’s just some thoughts for now as I explore this issue. I’ll be posting more in the future and would appreciate any insight or observation you have. [...] [...] As some of you may know, there was a variety of protests led by Cardinal Mahoney through out the country last monday in response to a new immigration bill, which would control immigration by raising illegal immigration to a felony. Here is an L.A. Times article on a recent protest. Ever since, the issue of immigration has been recurrent and I don’t exactly know how to respond. My friend, Wess Daniels, has a great dialogue going on the issue. There are several difficult issues. First, I approach the issue from the standpoint of a liberation theologian,which reminds us of the message of the prophets and the example of God’s action on behalf of the oppressed people of Israel in Egypt. God is on the side of the socially marginalized. Note the example of Jesus, who counted tax collectors, prostitutes and drunkards as among his friends and disciples not the wealthy and politically powerful. In our society immigrants are undoubtedly among this population. Second, I would like to note the positive presence that Latino immigrants have in the US. The Evloution of the Mexican-born Workforce in the U.S., written by two Harvard economists, is an informative and provocative look at actual role immigrants play in our economy. Our economy is dependent on their cheap labor, which is unacceptable in my opinion. Third, one of the biggest issues seems to be enforcement. Whatever policy we choose, it must be implemented with justice and efficiency. Even if we had the perfect response, if it is not enforced (without violence or militarization, of course) we will still have the same problem. Finally, we need to look at the broader issue. What is bringing immigrants to America? The jobs and lack of sustainable jobs in their country. Our country so often becomes the focus of immigration that we forget that Mexico is part of the problem. Holly has written a post on the need for just trade between the US and Mexico. That’s just some thoughts for now as I explore this issue. I’ll be posting more in the future and would appreciate any insight or observation you have. [...]

]]> By: gathering in light - Blog Archive » How to Blog for Theology and Religion http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-415 gathering in light - Blog Archive » How to Blog for Theology and Religion Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:47:00 +0000 http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/#comment-415 [...] Commenting is also important because it gives people a place to work out their own thoughts on the matter. I recently wrote a fairly popular - at least by gathering in light  standards on Immigration.  I realized later that I never left a comment responding to anyone, and though I should have, the comments continued to come from people who wanted to share their thoughts on the matter (An even better example of the usefulness of comments can be seen on over 400 comments about my XFBA posts I wrote earlier this year).  This process of dialoging with feedback is very important for theological blogging.  I have written things that were misrepresented someone or something, had some misunderstanding or was too strongly stated and I’ve been thankful for comments to not take my word for granted but challenge me in what I said. [...] [...] Commenting is also important because it gives people a place to work out their own thoughts on the matter. I recently wrote a fairly popular – at least by gathering in light  standards on Immigration.  I realized later that I never left a comment responding to anyone, and though I should have, the comments continued to come from people who wanted to share their thoughts on the matter (An even better example of the usefulness of comments can be seen on over 400 comments about my XFBA posts I wrote earlier this year).  This process of dialoging with feedback is very important for theological blogging.  I have written things that were misrepresented someone or something, had some misunderstanding or was too strongly stated and I’ve been thankful for comments to not take my word for granted but challenge me in what I said. [...]

]]> By: russkirby http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-388 russkirby Sun, 09 Apr 2006 02:42:43 +0000 http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/#comment-388 Wes, I just found your blog, wow: first, dylan thomas is my fav white poet; second, getting at immig., vege., and cone in one post is amazing; third, have you read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312319738/sr=8-1/qid=1144550271/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8365459-4803003?%5Fencoding=UTF8" rel="nofollow">Dominion</a>? Its a good read- you know i'm vegan; fourth, so mad i missed the cone lecture- heard he was great notes aside!; last, i will be checking in here- just getting my <a href="http://russkirby.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">blog</a> going, i'd love to see you there! b blessed russ Wes, I just found your blog, wow: first, dylan thomas is my fav white poet; second, getting at immig., vege., and cone in one post is amazing; third, have you read Dominion? Its a good read- you know i’m vegan; fourth, so mad i missed the cone lecture- heard he was great notes aside!; last, i will be checking in here- just getting my blog going, i’d love to see you there!

b blessed
russ

]]> By: Shawn Anthony http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-354 Shawn Anthony Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:08:34 +0000 http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/#comment-354 Wess - This site is incredible! Well done! Wess – This site is incredible! Well done!

]]> By: Work http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-353 Work Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:51:39 +0000 http://gatheringinlight.com/2006/03/27/thoughts-on-immigration-vegetarianism-and-james-cone/#comment-353 Wess, here's another point from Cone's lecture that stuck with me. He spoke about how blacks learned to hate themselves for not being white, for not matching the social norm, and made the connection to violent activity. I believe he addresses the subject in more detail in <em>God of the Oppressed</em>, but in brief, we learn to hate a part of ourselves, and then lash out against that element when we see it in others around us. Hence black-on-black violence at an epidemic level, which indirectly feeds the system of whiteness even more. Particularly in this case, it contributes to systemic injustice, and the numbers from the prison system would back him up. This isn't the primary manifestation of self-hatred that I see first and foremost, since my eyes tend not to focus on those markedly different from me. But i see the same thing going on in the 'white community,' with the whole body-image culture that has developed. Women in particular learn that a certain (unrealistic) standard imaged in pop icons is the norm, and devote enormous resources to pursuing this standard of beauty. Violence here isn't towards other persons, but is inflicted upon oneself. A person hates herself for not being, say, Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson, and attempts to cover or change those parts of her body that are most closely linked to the insecurities: eating disorders, plastic surgery, the list goes on. I was having a cup of coffee earlier in the day with a friend who was a youth pastor in South Korea prior to emigrating, and asked him about his situation, if there was any correlate in his culture. The examples he gave of beauty were drawn from nature, and the standards were roses and tulips. How far removed from that are we, and where do we get our standards of beauty? That's the additional application of Cone's work that I saw, which could be a huge help (in an area that i tend to look at and say 'where in the world do we start?'). Think it's a legitimate link? Wess, here’s another point from Cone’s lecture that stuck with me. He spoke about how blacks learned to hate themselves for not being white, for not matching the social norm, and made the connection to violent activity. I believe he addresses the subject in more detail in God of the Oppressed, but in brief, we learn to hate a part of ourselves, and then lash out against that element when we see it in others around us. Hence black-on-black violence at an epidemic level, which indirectly feeds the system of whiteness even more. Particularly in this case, it contributes to systemic injustice, and the numbers from the prison system would back him up.

This isn’t the primary manifestation of self-hatred that I see first and foremost, since my eyes tend not to focus on those markedly different from me. But i see the same thing going on in the ‘white community,’ with the whole body-image culture that has developed. Women in particular learn that a certain (unrealistic) standard imaged in pop icons is the norm, and devote enormous resources to pursuing this standard of beauty. Violence here isn’t towards other persons, but is inflicted upon oneself. A person hates herself for not being, say, Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson, and attempts to cover or change those parts of her body that are most closely linked to the insecurities: eating disorders, plastic surgery, the list goes on.

I was having a cup of coffee earlier in the day with a friend who was a youth pastor in South Korea prior to emigrating, and asked him about his situation, if there was any correlate in his culture. The examples he gave of beauty were drawn from nature, and the standards were roses and tulips. How far removed from that are we, and where do we get our standards of beauty?

That’s the additional application of Cone’s work that I saw, which could be a huge help (in an area that i tend to look at and say ‘where in the world do we start?’). Think it’s a legitimate link?

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